Eleanor, 27, Edinburgh Occupation Neuroscientist Voting record Labour and Green. And remain in the EU referendum Amuse bouche Eleanor enjoys caving: “It’s an opportunity to go somewhere no one has been before” Paul, 54, Edinburgh Occupation Marketing manager for a financial services company Voting record SNP, yes in the Scottish independence referendum in 2014, remain in the EU referendum Amuse bouche Paul is a metalhead, started going to gigs in the mid-1980s and still likes nothing more than smashing it up in the pit For starters Eleanor Paul has a strong sense of national identity. He’s lived in Scotland his whole life. My mum’s Irish, my dad was born in Malta and my childhood was spent moving around the UK. I have a more scattered sense of identity. Paul I thought: are they going to send a screaming unionist? It’s difficult with something binary like independence. But Eleanor had specific points – she wanted to see a white paper on what they are proposing. The big beef Eleanor I have concerns about science and healthcare. Independence would disqualify a lot of Scottish scientists from many of the funding options they currently use. With Brexit, we saw the collapse of grants and people lost their jobs. Science works best within an environment that encourages fluidity and dynamism – putting up barriers against that seems a shame. My concerns for the NHS are to do with the fact that if you are in Scotland and need treatment for, say, glioblastoma, you go to Manchester for proton beam therapy. How does that work after independence? Paul I accept there are risks. For me, it’s primarily emotional. I see myself as Scottish. I don’t see Scotland having its place on the world stage. No country in the world has a Scottish consul, and Scotland is not represented in any of the big world conversations, only as part of the UK. I am uncomfortable with some of the positioning within the independence debate – the anti-English sentiment. Independence could dilute that: we will no longer be able to point the finger at England and say it’s all their fault. Eleanor We talked about the EU and its accession criteria, and he was saying: “Yeah, we’re looking at the best part of a decade for that to happen.” Paul I’d like to get back into the EU, but recognise it’s a long haul. And I accept that if we have another referendum on independence and the result is no, then that is properly it for a generation. Sharing plate Paul Politically, we’re roughly in the same space. Conservatism and rightwingism are anathema to me. We agree that Westminster is currently full of a bunch of fannies. Eleanor I can get on board with wanting to distance yourself from the incompetence and insularity of the last few Tory governments. For afters Paul She doesn’t drink and I do. We had this conversation while I was happily drinking a bottle of wine. Eleanor My thing about alcohol is a public health one. People should be better informed. I don’t advocate for sobriety, but there is a crisis in alcohol-related deaths at the moment – Scotland has the highest level of alcohol deaths in the UK. We talked about Sapros (social aspects/public relations organisations), such as Drinkaware. To some, they look like government bodies, but they can be funded by the alcohol industry. Paul I drink for the taste, so there are plenty of times I’ll have a lovely malt whisky and that’s all. There are also times when I’m looking to have the effect of eight pints of beer. I’m conscious my drinking is not good for my health, but I’m happy with the decision I’ve made. I headbang at concerts – that can’t be good for my neurons, but I’m not going to stop doing it. I was at Anthrax last weekend. Takeaways Paul It’s great to have a conversation with somebody who really does think about things. Eleanor It was probably the most refreshing conversation I’ve had on independence. Paul was willing to accept that the degree to which people are divided on this isn’t a good thing. It was also lovely to hear him talking so affectionately about his wife and kids. Paul We were in the restaurant for almost five hours. Basically, they brought my coat to tell us to leave.