January 6 panel releases transcript of key witness ahead of 800-page report

  • 12/22/2022
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Ahead of the release of its full report, the House January 6 committee published transcripts of witness testimony including that of Cassidy Hutchinson, a central figure in the investigation of Donald Trump’s election subversion and the Capitol attack. On Wednesday night, the committee released 34 transcripts from 1,000 interviews conducted over 18 months. Most interviewees invoked their fifth amendment right against self-incrimination. But Adam Schiff of California, a Democratic member of the committee, told CBS: “I guarantee there’ll be some very interesting new information in the report and even more so in the transcripts.” Hutchinson, a former aide to Trump and his last chief of staff, Mark Meadows, gave some of the most dramatic testimony during live hearings last summer. Then, she described how Trump accosted a secret service agent and lunged for the steering wheel of his vehicle when he was told he would not be driven to the Capitol himself. Further testimony, given by Hutchinson behind closed doors on 14 and 15 September, was released on Thursday. The first session lasted five-and-a-half hours, the second two-and-a-half. Early readings of more than 200 pages revealed a hitherto unknown episode aboard Air Force One early on 5 January 2021, as Trump was flying back to Washington after attending rallies in Georgia. The testimony would appear to allude to attempts to persuade the vice-president, Mike Pence, to deny certification of Joe Biden’s victory the following day. In a meeting attended by, among others, the far-right Georgia congresswoman Marjorie Taylor-Greene, allies talked up the scheme and assured Trump it would succeed, Hutchinson says. But she says she then saw Meadows take Trump aside and caution him: “In case we didn’t win this [the election] sir, and in case, like, tomorrow doesn’t go as planned, we’re gonna have to have a plan in place.” According to Hutchinson, Trump replied: “There’s always that chance we didn’t win, but tomorrow’s gonna go well.” The remark is potentially crucial evidence that Trump knew his defeat was not the result of fraud. Hutchinson also says she felt she had “Trump himself looking over my shoulder” as she discussed with her attorney her testimony earlier this year. The former White House aide outlines what she saw as sustained campaign of pressure by lawyers paid by Trump to get her to mislead the panel. CNN reported on Wednesday that Stefan Passantino, the top ethics attorney in the Trump White House, allegedly advised Hutchinson to tell the committee she did not recall details that in fact she did. According to the new transcript, Hutchinson said: “It wasn’t just that I had Stefan sitting next to me; it was almost like I felt like I had Trump looking over my shoulder. Because I knew in some fashion it would get back to him if I said anything that he would find disloyal. “And the prospect of that genuinely scared me. You know, I’d seen this world ruin people’s lives or try to ruin people’s careers. I’d seen how vicious they can be.” Hutchinson, then 26, said she thought she was “fucked” because she couldn’t afford a lawyer, but was hooked up with Passantino through White House contacts. It turned out Passantino was paid by a Trump-aligned political action committee. Hutchinson added: “I want to make this clear to you: Stefan never told me to lie. He specifically told me, ‘I don’t want you to perjure yourself, but ‘I don’t recall’ isn’t perjury. They don’t know want you can and can’t recall’. That said, Hutchinson felt pressured into misleading the panel. The relationship with Passantino soured and ended, she said. Subjects of other transcripts included Jeffrey Clark, an official in the justice department who worked to advance Trump’s efforts to overturn the election, and John Eastman, a conservative lawyer and an architect of Trump’s attempt to stay in office. Each invoked his fifth amendment right against self-incrimination. Also included in the release was testimony from members of extremist groups involved in the attack. The Oath Keepers founder, Stewart Rhodes, convicted last month of seditious conspiracy, and the former Proud Boys leader Enrique Tarrio both testified. Tarrio and four other Proud Boys will appear in court this month. Committee members hope for criminal charges against Trump and key allies. Only the justice department has the power to prosecute, so the panel recommended investigation of Trump for four crimes, including aiding an insurrection. On Wednesday the Democratic committee chair, Bennie Thompson of Mississippi, was asked if he had confidence charges would be pursued. He told MSNBC: “I am more comfortable with the fact that the special counsel” – Jack Smith, appointed last month – “has been actively engaged in pursuing any and all the information available. They have been in contact, asking us to provide various transcripts and what have you.” Thompson was asked if the committee was cooperating with the justice department. He said: “Yes … we made the decision [in] consultation with other members that we will cooperate.” He added: “There were people that we deposed that justice had not deposed. There were electors in various states that justice couldn’t find. We found them. We deposed them. And so we had a lot of information, but now we make all that information available. And if they come back and want to interview staff or any members, ask [for] any additional information, we’ll be more than happy to do it.” Trump is running again for the presidency but faces investigations including into the presence of classified documents at his Florida estate and his tax affairs. He has been blamed by Republicans for a poor showing in the midterm elections, leaving him politically vulnerable. Trump has slammed the House committee as “thugs and scoundrels”. In response to the criminal referrals, he said: “These folks don’t get it that when they come after me, people who love freedom rally around me. It strengthens me.” Republicans take over the House on 3 January. The committee will be dissolved.

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