“Time passes quickly and you’re happy and sad at the same time because it will all be over soon,” Rodrygo says with a maturity that belies his 23 years. The Real Madrid and Brazil forward has had to grow up quickly and no longer has the air of a youngster. Now he is the one who has to welcome the younger players into the Seleção squad. “You have to be more focused and work harder to make history,” he says as we speak before Brazil’s game against England at Wembley on Saturday. “There are times when I think: ‘Damn it, I’m no longer the youngest in the team.’ When there are jokes, I’m no longer the first in line because there are younger players than me. But I can say I’m happy to have this experience. Even though I’m so young, I’m already treated like a mature person and I help the newcomers as much as I can.” Rodrygo likes change and copes well with new responsibilities. At the 2022 World Cup he was the second-youngest player in the squad that was eliminated by Croatia in the quarter-finals. Since Qatar, he has witnessed a transformation, with experienced players replaced by the next generation. For this international window, there are already seven players who are younger than him including Endrick, who is only 17 and will join him at Real Madrid in the summer. “I’m passing on all the advice I got when I arrived in the national team. Today there are many players who are in Brazil and will soon be coming to Europe. And there are many who are already here. Despite the fact I am only 23, I’ve already experienced a lot and I know how to respond,” he tells me. “There’s a lot of hierarchy in the national team. This is something I knew would happen: over time, with the years and games, I would become more and more respected. But I can’t be respected just because of my age or the number of games I’ve played. In the Seleção you have to show quality, you have to perform on the pitch.” Rodrygo has lived with pressure since he was 11, which is when he arrived at Santos, the club that created Pelé and Neymar, the two greatest goalscorers in Brazil’s history. That connection to his idols, and the comparisons he has endured since childhood, has helped him to handle the pressure to perform. “Today I play for the biggest national team in the world and the biggest club in the world. If I don’t want pressure playing for those two, something is wrong. There would be no way to continue. I can never settle for losing. That’s the mentality of Real Madrid and the Seleção. I always think about winning. That’s what I’ve got in my head. I need to win to please the Brazilian and Real Madrid supporters.” In order to help him achieve his targets Rodrygo has been speaking to a psychologist, but it took a long time before he realised how beneficial it could be. This is still often seen as a taboo in sport, especially in football. But things are changing, and this week Brazil announced that psychologist Marisa Santiago is joining Dorival Júnior’s coaching team as they look to end their wait for a sixth World Cup. Brazil’s exits at the last five World Cups, all of them coming at the hands of European teams, has led to the team’s mentality being discussed at home. There have been other cases in world sport, such as the gymnast Simone Biles at the Tokyo Olympics in 2021, that have highlighted the need to help elite athletes. “Everyone has a little fear,” Rodrygo says. “It’s normal. Some people know how to deal with fear better than others. That’s the difference. There is really a lot of pressure. There’s no rest in football. If you win on Wednesday, you’re the best in the world. If you lose on Sunday, you’re the worst in the world. You have to have balance. “I try not to worry about what people are going to say. People also need to understand the player’s side,” he continues. “We need to be careful about our mental health. I advise everyone, not just players, to look for a psychologist. It helps a lot. I’ve been speaking to someone and it helped me a lot because I had a totally different idea of what it would be. I started doing it and I really enjoyed it. I really recommend it. “I started in March last year. It was my father who suggested it. I didn’t want to do it at first because I had this prejudice of thinking it was something for people with problems. I thought: ‘I’m fine and I don’t need this.’ But I decided to have a session. When I did, I realised that the psychologist was someone who was there to help me, that she was a friend, that I could tell her anything. Rodrygo quickly learned that “I could talk about things I was ashamed to talk about at home or with friends. That freed me. I’ve started to see Rosana, my psychologist, as a friend I can trust. There I could talk about everything, from small to big conversations, that I was afraid of. There were a lot of things that made me anxious and I spoke up. That helped me improve a lot.” In addition to feeling the pressure to perform, there have been off-pitch issues he has had to deal with. Like Vinícius Júnior, his teammate for club and country, Rodrygo has been the target of racist abuse, particularly after World Cup qualifier against Argentina at the Maracanã, in Rio. Brazil lost 1-0 with Rodrygo getting involved in a heated discussion with the Argentina captain, Lionel Messi, amid trouble in the stands involving stadium security staff and Argentinian fans. Rodrygo was subsequently attacked on social media. “I suffered racism on social media from many Argentinians,” he says. “It was a very sad situation and it gets to you. I was very sad. But we tracked down all the profiles that sent me abuse. Many of them must have been scared in the last few days when they received the lawsuit. Imagine!” “People think they can write whatever they want on social media, but then they get a lawsuit at home because of it,” he continues. “It would have been nice to see their surprise at being sued. I’m OK now, I know I’m nothing like what they say. I don’t care what they say. But it really was a sad day.” Rodrygo has also had to witness a series of racist attacks on Vinícius Júnior in Spain. His teammate has become increasingly involved in combating the problem, but the incidents have only increased, especially at away games. Could tougher punishment go some way towards eradicating the problem? Rodrygo thinks so. “When they start punishing [people], things will change. But as long as there is no punishment, it will continue. As soon as they start punishing people I think a lot will change.” Rodrygo, remarkably, is already in his fifth season with Real Madrid. He has played more than 200 games and scored 50 goals. He has won two La Liga titles, and is on his way to securing a third. He has one Copa del Rey and, memorably, one Champions League, in 2022. So far he has saved some of his best performances for Europe and with 18 goals he is already – along with Vinícius Júnior – the Brazilian with the most goals for Madrid in the competition, surpassing legends like Ronaldo, Kaká and Roberto Carlos on his way. Two of those goals came in stoppage time against Manchester City in the 2022 semi-final as they completed a remarkable comeback. His goals took the game into extra time, where Real prevailed and went on to beat Liverpool in the final in Paris. This season he has been joined by a high-profile teammate, who will be on the opposing side at Wembley: Jude Bellingham. The mind games have been going on for some time. “We talked a lot about the match,” says Rodrygo. “Viní and I joke a lot with him, saying that Brazil will win, and he replies that England will win. It’s going to be a great match. It’s at their home, in a big stadium. It’s going to be a beautiful spectacle.” Bellingham’s impact at Real Madrid has been a revelation since joining from Borussia Dortmund last summer. The 20-year-old took no time whatsoever to acclimatise, which impressed his teammate. “There aren’t very many English players in La Liga, but it was a perfect fit for him,” says Rodrygo. “Everything has fitted into place for him very well. The way he plays fits well into our gameplan this year. Last year we played one way, the way Real Madrid have always played, but this year the formation has changed and it has really worked for him and the characteristics he brings. He’s very good.” Rodrygo’s admiration for English football is not restricted to Bellingham, and he is full of praise for Gareth Southgate’s team. “I’d put them in the top three of the world. It’s a very good team with a lot of quality players. Most of them play in the Premier League. They’re all standouts at their clubs. We have to be very careful.” While Real Madrid remain a world power in football, Brazil have fallen behind. With three defeats in their first six games in the World Cup qualifiers, they are in crisis. The team have had three coaches since the 2022 World Cup but Rodrygo is confident that the latest appointment, Dorival Júnior, can turn things around. “When it comes to the Seleção you have to expect the best,” he says. “Our generation is very good and we have a lot of young players with a lot of potential who can still develop. Now we have to bring all that to the team. We need to repeat what we do at club level for the Seleção. It’s time to bring all our quality together.” The 23-year-old likes his new status within the team. He knows it is time for a renewal and that he and Vinícius Júnior can lead the way. They are both keen to listen and learn, and it seems as if Dorival Júnior is going to tell all the players exactly what he feels. “He [Dorival Júnior] respects everyone,” says Rodrygo. “The way he speaks, how direct he is. We’ve already had a one-to-one conversation and he was very direct. “There are things you don’t want to hear, that people close to you won’t say, but that you really need to hear,” he adds. “Dorival had a go at me right at the beginning. That’s good because I’m already more switched on, ready and aware of my responsibility. There’s no age for being told off. It showed that he will treat all the players in the same way.” “My responsibility is increasing,” he concludes. “I keep that in mind. And it’s going to keep increasing. It’s a new generation that I’m part of and I can be one of its leaders. I know what I can bring to the team. I know that the supporters expect a lot from me.”